Trying to get fit

Posted on November 22, 2009 by CoachJay

On Friday I ran a workout with Renee; she had a fartlec on the track with some running at 5:20 pace, some running at 5:40 pace and then a 400m breather a few times sprinkled in. She ran just under 6:00 pace for 10k and I ran all but 300m of it, taking a short 60 sec break to cheer for/yell at James Hatch. Hatch and I then went to the weight room for his short 30-40 minute lift (separate post on that soon) and then I returned to the track for 4xVern Gambetta Leg Circuit, which you can see in the video below. I took a 60 second break between the second and third set and I did 50 step-ups in each set and my posture was poor on squats and rocket jumps, but other than those deviations I did the same thing that Sara is doing in the video.

Why am I sharing this? Because of a simple principle that I’m realizing in my own running. My problem isn’t my heart and lungs. My problem is my legs. When trying to run 70′s on the track my legs get hot – not a nice hot, but a “what heck am I doing, I’m about to tear a hammy” hot – yet my breathing isn’t that bad. No this isn’t to say that my breathing and fitness is perfect, but I really think that for someone who has a aerobic history the limiting factor is structural and muscular after the initial, basal fitness is meet. And I think that when working with post collegiate athletes the same thing is true somewhere around eight weeks of training. They are getting fit enough to handle either more running or faster running from a metabolic (i.e. aerobic) standpoint, yet they’re legs – especially lower legs and feet – aren’t ready. Again, can’t prove this, but that’s my hunch.

So, that’s what I did Friday. I ran slow yesterday and did 3x100m hill strides. I felt HORRIBLE today running BV’s easy pace for 13 miles and I blame lack of recovery from Friday’s workout and leg work for feeling so poor this morning.

Tell me this is wrong or makes no sense as I’d love to hear what you think as I hope to post about my own training every once in a while.

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  • ericwrichey

    Jay – I think you are definitely onto something. I too am making a sort of comeback at the ripe old age of 27. I ran 15:43 (5K Track) / 25:32 (8K XC) and a 2:41 marathon (Hot and Hilly – NAIA Champs in Kansas in 2003) during my college years (6-7 years ago) and I can recover general aerobic fitness very quickly (even on limited mileage – I am only running 35-40 miles a week now but ran 70-90 during my college years) but the neuromuscular and structural component is seriously lacking. I have run a few 5mi LT runs recently, easily clipping along @ 5:50-5:55 pace – but I tried a session of Mile Reps the other day (4 x Mile) and my legs were killing me at 5:30 pace.

    Of course this has been the attack on American Distance Training Theory for years – that it has focused on the Aerobic / Cardiovascular system over and against the Neuromuscular / Structural System. Many blame the LSD (Long Slow Distance) training culture of the 60s and 70s but there are also social reasons for this – LSD is a very pragmatic approach (You want to be a long distance runner – then you go specialize in running long distances slowly without much thought to developing the NM system).

    The question of “When am I ever gonna use this” which we hear so often as educators in the classroom spills over onto the track. I think we must recognize that in any progression in life there is a time for general work and a time for specific work – and that the specific work can only be supported by general work (it is important, however that the general work is relevant – and not too general). This is true in the academic world (HS -> College Gen Ed -> Classes for your Major -> Specialized Grad School) and it is true in the Training of Athletes.

    The modern academy's increased focus on Specialization has been productive in many respects but has produced lots of unintended consequences as well. That's why I so appreciate your emphasis on the role of the “General” before moving onto the “Specific”. Most coaches understand this in reference to “running training” but you and others have helped me see this at work in all training (GS -> Weights / Plyos) that we assign our athletes. This is particularly helpful for those of us coaching at the HS level.

    Hope this makes sense – sorry this is a bit long-winded.

  • http://twitter.com/georgezack georgezack

    Jay

    Thanks for this post. Your posts serve as a reminder to me of work I ought to do, but often fail to do. Having recently turned 40, I am going to make the new's resolution again to get after this circuit work.

    I too have found that aerobically, I seem to be able to over ride what I can do muscularly – although the HR data never supports this. When I get to those faster efforts, because they are less familiar muscularly, various systems begin to fail (namely form) and so I am working harder than just a linear increase effort – speed.

    So – like Eric posts, an effort of six minutes a mile come across as simple (sustainable for an hour), 5:45 is threshold – and wheels are starting to come off at 5:20 (which is disappointing since that was 10k pace just a couple of years ago).

    Oh back to the circuit work … have your run into any folks dealing with so called “sports hernia?” This is not an actual hernia, but just a pervasive soreness in the lower abdomen wall, groin … makes some of these exercises VERY challenging.

    Thanks again.

  • http://coachjayjohnson.com CoachJay

    Thanks for the comments Eric and George, yet please know that I'm simply following my best guess and that I can't prove that it's necessarily the best course of action. Also, who's to say I'm simply lacking recent experience feeling uncomfortable – it's been over a decade since I've gone out and been uncomfortable going around a 400m oval and no doubt I've forgot how to hurt. But regardless, I'll keep doing the lower body work and in the coming weeks and months I should have the time to do so as our child is getting older and we have some new child care options…which basically means I won't have an excuse to be overweight and out of shape.

    Again, thanks to you both for your feedback and to George, hope we can run in Boulder sometime soon.

  • CoachKedge

    Jay,
    Welcome to real adulthood. It does not come with the first big purchase, the first mortage payment, the “I do”, or even the birth of the new little one. Father time comes a knocking when you tell yourself, “ahhh it is just :70's, I can knock out :70's all day long” Reality is that joints, tendons, ligaments all need a period of getting in shape too. Throw in the fact that running and RUNNING are two different things. They don't use all the same muscles or use them in the same way – my friend.

  • Matthew Barreau

    No need to really rehash what others have said, but I believe very strongly that you have to train a little bit of everything at all times. I also believe that while as we reach higher levels of performance and our performances are logarithmic in nature, our training actually becomes exponential with time. If you picture blowing up a balloon: the first few breaths give some stability, then after that the breaths seem to finally give the balloon some size.

    The best analogy I have is to picture a basket with many balloons attached, one for every training modality you can think of (speed, strength, aerobic, neuromuscular, and every possible subcategory, etc.). And picture vertical height achieved as the ultimate goal. If you begin filling up one balloon at a time you will drag diagonally across the ground for a rough takeoff, or even tip over the basket and you will meet failure. If you focus on filling one up, then another, then another, your basket will be rocking back and forth, and you will make yourself sick trying to figure out which one is lacking and which you need to go back to work on. However, if you you are giving constant attention to each balloon your basket will begin to rise, and as it picks up altitude it will really gain momentum. But then it is important to continuously maintain each balloon, or else the flight path of your basket will be diagonally and you won't achieve the altitudes you could/should have. And as your basket is rising and each balloon is full, it will be easier to see the minor changes in the flight path (training) needed to keep the rise straight up? Than if you have a balloon dragging along the ground.

    Of course, this analogy is most believable because it also gives affirmation to the belief that coaches are full of hot air. ;-)

  • Matthew Barreau

    One thing I have noticed in my own attempts at transitioning from fat-to-fit is the special attention that should be paid to hamstrings… Or at least the special attention they give me!

    It's common knowledge that when the abs are weak the hips are out of place and an efficient running stride is much more difficult–if not impossible–to maintain. In this process it shortens your stride and doesn't give your hamstrings as much of an opportunity to develop in the correct range of motion. And if one tries to run faster and increase their stride length the hamstrings are put in a vulnerable postion, so they guard themselves by tightening. At least that's why I believe my hamstrings seem to get tight before anything else and also why I get back pain.

    However, the other saying is that a tight muscle is a weak muscle. And I have to believe that in a sedentary life that abs still might be proportionally closer to am 'adequate' strength than hamstrings (my hypothesis). And also, the hamstrings DO play a part in keeping the hips in the correct position (the abs pull up from the front and the hamstrings pull down from the back). Since the hamstrings are the one that seem to get tight moreso than the abs, perhaps we should spend more of our initial 'core strength' focus on getting the hamstrings caught up.

    (I could go on and on about how neuromuscular development is then retarded because the body isn't running in correct patterns… So not only do we have a neuromuscular component to train, but we have an incorrect neuromuscular pattern to untrained first.)

  • Shane

    This is the exact problem I have had the last 2 years. Ever since I have been doing Jays stuff and extra I have noticed my back pain go down on my long run and on 200/400 repeats.

    Good post Matt!

  • Matthew Barreau

    Thank you and glad things are going well!

  • Shane

    I had to stop running in college because of a back injury and ever since every time I try to get back in shape, I get to a point where my back pain just increases. Ive never been really diligent on the core work. But in doing jays myrtle, back, lc1, lc2, pedestal, lm, cannonball (havent reached grant green yet) routines and sprinkling some other strength/stretching exercises in my daily running. Ive been great. I find that when my back hurts in the past, my hamstrings were always tight. Then i would try stretching alot but the pain would still come back.

    I have that swayback problem where my lower abdomen sticks out somewhat due to years of poor posture and very weak hips, and obliques.

  • http://coachjayjohnson.com CoachJay

    Well said…but I'm still going to try to run some 70's. I ran 3x200m at the end of the workout on Friday and ran 30ish on all three (with lots of rest – 90 sec walking around).

    Hope you're well and thanks for the comment.

  • http://coachjayjohnson.com CoachJay

    Thanks for the comments Matt. I've found that my hamstrings aren't as big of a problem when I'm running with erect posture, yet I'm not running that fast. Plus, the one thing that I keep forgetting is that I had roughly 6 months of slow, slow running behind the baby jogger and I think that really strengthened my posterior chain (i.e. back of the body) without me knowing it/paying attention to it. But who knows, I could be wrong about that.

    Thanks again for the comment – great addition to this discussion.

  • Matthew Barreau

    I think you are very right about your posterior chain getting the extra work. My hamstring tightness and back soreness goes away very quickly (within a week or two) of starting from scratch. But since the tightness/pain/etc. goes away so quickly, it just reminds me that I've probably not strengthened that posterior nearly to where it 'should' be, but rather only to a point where my body needs it to be to rid it of the actual specific feedback (pain).

    And because of that, it just reaffirms my belief that we need to spend more time focusing on the posterior chain as the weak link/limiting factor.

    (Tony Veney suggested simple step-ups onto a box as a great way to strengthen hamstrings; he said his trainers at UCLA taught him a great deal about that exercise when his sprinters would have hamstring issues. Note: as you step up, the more erect you're able to stand the more you will engage the hamstrings; the more you lean forward the more you will engage the quads.)

  • lonniestyles

    Great stuff on this site. I enjoy the articles and comments. Just to set the record straight on the step up variations Matthew talked about, you bias the quads more by being upright and the hamstrings (or entire posterior chain) more by leaning forward. The more one moves his/her center of mass behind the knee, the more the quads work, conversely, moving the center of mass more toward the front of the knee engages the hamstrings more. As Jay has touched on in the past, Gary Gray uses these principles a lot in the lunge matrix series to engage all lower body musculature in these movt patterns.