Jay Johnson
Long Runs for High School Runners: How to Keep Kids Injury-Free
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Transcript
Recorded speech. Speaker names describe the source; individual speaking turns may vary.
00:00.24–00:02.23 High school cross-country coaches, it's
00:02.24–00:04.67 June. Let's talk about the long run.
00:04.68–00:07.35 Okay, I want you to hold two different
00:07.36–00:09.31 things at the same time.
00:09.32–00:11.31 I want you to say the long run in the
00:11.32–00:14.43 summer might be the most impactful thing
00:14.44–00:16.51 you can do to build the kids aerobic
00:16.52–00:17.47 engine. If you don't know what the
00:17.48–00:19.19 aerobic engine is, we talk about it in
00:19.20–00:20.75 Consistency's Key. I'll probably come
00:20.76–00:22.99 back to the book later. We know that a
00:23.00–00:25.59 high school cross-country race, 95% of
00:25.60–00:27.15 that energy is going to come from the
00:27.16–00:29.87 aerobic metabolism. So, we're going to
00:29.88–00:31.79 look at the long run as possibly the
00:31.80–00:34.03 most impactful thing you can do over a
00:34.04–00:36.23 7-day or 10-day period to build that
00:36.24–00:38.03 aerobic engine.
00:38.04–00:39.59 I also want you to think that you can
00:39.60–00:42.39 injure kids, you can hurt kids, you can
00:42.40–00:44.19 have kids miss weeks and weeks in the
00:44.20–00:47.03 summer, maybe even have an injury that's
00:47.04–00:48.39 going to last them throughout the fall,
00:48.40–00:49.55 and maybe they miss the entire
00:49.56–00:51.51 cross-country season cuz you screw up
00:51.52–00:53.03 the long run. Now,
00:53.04–00:54.75 as I'm saying that, that's a little bit
00:54.76–00:56.43 It's almost a little bit adversarial,
00:56.44–00:58.67 but and I don't mean it that way, but I
00:58.68–01:00.55 want you to be really honest as a high
01:00.56–01:02.91 school coach that it's up to you to keep
01:02.92–01:04.95 kids injury free, okay? I'm a
01:04.96–01:06.95 50-year-old man who was a high school
01:06.96–01:09.27 runner in the 1990s. We assumed that
01:09.28–01:11.51 injuries were part of the sport. I was a
01:11.52–01:13.63 college runner in the 1990s. We assumed
01:13.64–01:15.07 that injuries were part of the sport,
01:15.08–01:17.03 and it might be for college runners. You
01:17.04–01:18.67 could argue a college runner has to get
01:18.68–01:21.07 really close to that edge, right? Of
01:21.08–01:23.27 figuring out, "Hey, what's the most I
01:23.28–01:25.55 can train and stay injury free?" And
01:25.56–01:27.91 then if you cross that, for me I crossed
01:27.92–01:29.91 it spring of my
01:29.92–01:31.27 freshman year and into my sophomore
01:31.28–01:32.91 year, but then I was able to stay
01:32.92–01:34.39 healthy the rest of my career in
01:34.40–01:35.59 college, right? And that's kind of how
01:35.60–01:37.23 it works. But, if we go back to this
01:37.24–01:38.95 long run idea,
01:38.96–01:40.55 the reason in my cross-country training
01:40.56–01:42.55 system we're doing a long run in week
01:42.56–01:43.55 one,
01:43.56–01:45.07 and we're only doing two challenging
01:45.08–01:46.83 workouts a week, and the long run is one
01:46.84–01:48.35 of them, right? We're only We're not
01:48.36–01:50.23 trying to do three workouts a week, just
01:50.24–01:52.23 two, and we're using the long run as one
01:52.24–01:54.19 of those hard days. So, obviously I
01:54.20–01:57.03 value it. Obviously I think that in the
01:57.04–01:59.47 summer it's one of the most important
01:59.48–02:01.91 ways to build the aerobic engine, but
02:01.92–02:04.99 you need to take the word long out of
02:05.00–02:06.95 what we're calling this workout for your
02:06.96–02:09.47 younger kids, right? If you have a kid
02:09.48–02:12.19 who's an incoming freshman
02:12.20–02:14.27 and they didn't run track
02:14.28–02:15.87 and I'm pausing here, so there's really
02:15.88–02:17.59 something said, right? They didn't run
02:17.60–02:19.59 track, they didn't play another sport.
02:19.60–02:21.67 Let's say it's week three for them and
02:21.68–02:23.79 they're doing a 30-minute long run. They
02:23.80–02:26.75 They went from zero to a 30-minute long
02:26.76–02:28.99 run. That really is a really long run
02:29.00–02:31.67 and it could even be too long for them.
02:31.68–02:33.55 Now, I'm not
02:33.56–02:34.51 I'm
02:34.52–02:35.79 you're either on the other side of the
02:35.80–02:37.35 camera or you're you're on the other
02:37.36–02:38.87 side of this microphone listening to
02:38.88–02:40.63 this or watching this. Obviously, I
02:40.64–02:42.51 don't know your program. Obviously, I
02:42.52–02:44.63 don't know where these kids started. You
02:44.64–02:46.47 might have kids who ran kids who are
02:46.48–02:48.67 going into their junior or senior year.
02:48.68–02:49.63 They've been running with you for
02:49.64–02:51.63 multiple years. They had a great state
02:51.64–02:53.55 meet, ran middle of May, third week in
02:53.56–02:55.87 May, maybe last week in May and they're
02:55.88–02:57.67 they're taking two or three weeks off
02:57.68–02:59.83 and then they're they're doing 60, 70,
02:59.84–03:01.55 80-minute long runs in track. All of a
03:01.56–03:03.47 sudden, a 30-minute run is not a long
03:03.48–03:05.39 run. But, I really want you to look at
03:05.40–03:07.91 that freshman kid or basically somebody
03:07.92–03:09.51 who just finished eighth grade going
03:09.52–03:11.67 into their freshman year as well as the
03:11.68–03:13.87 athlete who's only been running with you
03:13.88–03:15.59 for a year. Let's say they didn't run in
03:15.60–03:18.15 the summer prior to their freshman year.
03:18.16–03:20.27 Let's say they ran fall cross country,
03:20.28–03:21.99 weren't really consistent in the winter,
03:22.00–03:23.95 didn't run much, came out for track as a
03:23.96–03:26.67 freshman. Man, that's an athlete who
03:26.68–03:28.51 really hasn't run that much in their
03:28.52–03:31.07 life. So, coaches, I want and I didn't
03:31.08–03:32.03 know why I'm saying coaches. There's
03:32.04–03:33.35 just one of you. There's me and you
03:33.36–03:34.91 right here. I want you to take the word
03:34.92–03:37.87 long and I don't want you to equate long
03:37.88–03:39.43 with important.
03:39.44–03:42.67 The longest run in their week. And
03:42.68–03:44.35 longest for some kids could be a
03:44.36–03:46.51 25-minute run. Could be a 30-minute run.
03:46.52–03:48.63 Now, here's how I like to progress this.
03:48.64–03:50.63 Let's say you did have a kid where you
03:50.64–03:52.75 felt like their long run should be 40
03:52.76–03:54.75 minutes in week one. The other thing I
03:54.76–03:56.51 want you to say is, "Hey, I'm It's
03:56.52–03:58.39 middle of June now. Let's say they ran
03:58.40–04:00.43 40 minutes this week. What if you did a
04:00.44–04:03.71 progression of 40 minutes, then 42, then
04:03.72–04:08.99 45, then 48, then 50, then 52, then 50
04:09.00–04:10.91 and go on and on and you want to maybe
04:10.92–04:12.83 want to make bigger jumps."
04:12.84–04:15.43 But coach, let me ask you this. If you
04:15.44–04:17.35 go from 40
04:17.36–04:20.03 to 45 the next week,
04:20.04–04:21.59 do the math really quick on what
04:21.60–04:23.47 percentage that was. Okay, I'm going to
04:23.48–04:24.67 let you do the math. I'm going to take a
04:24.68–04:29.11 sip of water and let you do the math.
04:29.12–04:31.99 It was over 10%.
04:32.00–04:33.71 Right? And if that doesn't seal feel
04:33.72–04:35.19 like that big deal, let me ask you, do
04:35.20–04:37.11 you go run? Right? What if we said,
04:37.12–04:39.87 "Hey, you're doing a 10-mile run one day
04:39.88–04:41.55 and then we're doing 11 the next week
04:41.56–04:43.63 and then 12 the next week and then 13
04:43.64–04:45.83 and then 14 and 15." That's a really
04:45.84–04:48.03 that that's just an unsafe way to build
04:48.04–04:51.19 volume. Now, maybe and what I'm trying
04:51.20–04:54.79 to say is if you went 40 to 44 to 48 and
04:54.80–04:56.87 then now you're in now you jump up to 55
04:56.88–05:00.23 or 60. If you go to 40 to 60 too quick,
05:00.24–05:02.67 that's a 50% jump. And again, if you're
05:02.68–05:04.91 a middle-aged runner and you're
05:04.92–05:06.03 you ran in high school, you ran in
05:06.04–05:08.43 college, maybe you still run. I think we
05:08.44–05:10.71 don't understand. This is my thesis
05:10.72–05:12.23 going all the way back to when I made
05:12.24–05:14.15 these DVDs called building a better
05:14.16–05:16.11 runner, building from the ground ground
05:16.12–05:18.15 up. And I almost took almost took credit
05:18.16–05:19.99 for something that wasn't my idea. So,
05:20.00–05:22.35 Mike Smith, not Northern Arizona Mike
05:22.36–05:23.95 Smith, my friend Mike Smith who's the
05:23.96–05:26.35 coach at West Point, he explained to me
05:26.36–05:28.63 that kids aren't running and jumping and
05:28.64–05:30.15 they're not outside and he would always
05:30.16–05:32.59 use the example of playing kick the can,
05:32.60–05:34.35 right? If you're middle-aged, you know
05:34.36–05:36.27 that that game, capture the flag, kick
05:36.28–05:38.19 the can. We didn't have screens, we were
05:38.20–05:40.11 more active. And it for me it was just
05:40.12–05:41.87 as simple as I rode my bike to the
05:41.88–05:44.07 tennis court, played tennis, then I went
05:44.08–05:46.71 to basketball camp. So, I I lived in a
05:46.72–05:47.83 neighborhood where we couldn't play
05:47.84–05:49.23 those games, but I was moving all the
05:49.24–05:50.31 time.
05:50.32–05:52.63 When I went from somebody who was
05:52.64–05:54.75 running 30 mi a week in high school to
05:54.76–05:57.95 then running 14 mi on Magnolia Road,
05:57.96–06:01.07 what, 6 months late 5 months later?
06:01.08–06:03.47 And then with and then 12 months later
06:03.48–06:06.39 was running 80 85 mi a week in singles
06:06.40–06:08.87 and didn't get hurt, I basically had a
06:08.88–06:10.95 strong chassis. Obviously, we talked
06:10.96–06:12.95 about that and consistency is key. We're
06:12.96–06:14.35 talking about building the aerobic
06:14.36–06:17.63 engine. But, our chassis were stronger
06:17.64–06:20.07 back in the 1990s. If you if you're in
06:20.08–06:22.51 your early 40s or late 30s, your chassis
06:22.52–06:25.31 was stronger in the 2000s. These kids
06:25.32–06:27.19 now,
06:27.20–06:28.87 especially if they haven't played other
06:28.88–06:30.39 sports, but even if they have played
06:30.40–06:32.07 other sports, they're just not as
06:32.08–06:34.63 strong. No their bone structure, they're
06:34.64–06:36.59 just not as strong. So, you give them
06:36.60–06:38.19 all this volume and you're you're
06:38.20–06:40.63 thinking, "Hey, 40 to 60, that's not
06:40.64–06:42.27 that big a jump. That's what I did as an
06:42.28–06:43.43 athlete." Now, you have all these kids
06:43.44–06:45.07 hurting you can't figure out why. It's
06:45.08–06:46.31 because you're not progressing them
06:46.32–06:49.27 slowly. The story with the 40-minute
06:49.28–06:52.75 runner, you can get to 60 or more.
06:52.76–06:53.87 But, the other thing I want you to
06:53.88–06:55.83 consider is this. Kids aren't running
06:55.84–06:57.15 long runs fast enough. One of the
06:57.16–06:59.03 biggest reasons my my cross country
06:59.04–07:01.63 training system works is we don't just
07:01.64–07:03.79 we don't just run for 40 minutes or 50
07:03.80–07:05.75 minutes or 60 minutes on that long run.
07:05.76–07:07.67 We get going. We're getting after a
07:07.68–07:09.79 little bit. Now, not the same mentality
07:09.80–07:11.83 we had at running CU during the Running
07:11.84–07:13.59 with the Buffaloes days. It's not that
07:13.60–07:16.03 intense, but here's how we might do a
07:16.04–07:18.19 50-minute run. We're going to take the
07:18.20–07:21.59 first 25 to 30 minutes conversational
07:21.60–07:24.15 enjoying our friends enjoying chatting
07:24.16–07:26.51 with our friends. Now, from the from the
07:26.52–07:29.23 30-minute mark to the 15-minute mark,
07:29.24–07:31.55 we're going to do four to five strides,
07:31.56–07:33.87 maybe 20 seconds, maybe 25 seconds.
07:33.88–07:36.15 We're going to build up to 5K rhythm and
07:36.16–07:38.91 we're going to run that rhythm, okay?
07:38.92–07:41.03 Now, they can take as much time as they
07:41.04–07:43.35 need till the next stride. So, it's not
07:43.36–07:44.75 We're not stopping and doing strides.
07:44.76–07:46.83 We're doing strides in the long run.
07:46.84–07:48.47 That That's a wrinkle to my training.
07:48.48–07:50.07 You can get all this training for free
07:50.08–07:52.03 depending on what platform you're walk
07:52.04–07:53.31 watching this on. There'll be a link
07:53.32–07:55.27 where you can get it for free. Now, if
07:55.28–07:57.55 you think about it, if you sped up from
07:57.56–08:01.63 minute 30 to 30 minutes and 25 seconds,
08:01.64–08:03.71 when you go back to easy run pace, you
08:03.72–08:06.31 actually don't slow down a ton. And you
08:06.32–08:07.75 And you're just feeling good. Your legs
08:07.76–08:09.19 are moving. Obviously, you've been
08:09.20–08:10.51 running for a while.
08:10.52–08:12.23 So, it becomes what some people might
08:12.24–08:14.55 call a fast finish long run. Some people
08:14.56–08:16.55 might call a progression long run. Now,
08:16.56–08:18.55 it's really two chunks. It's that first
08:18.56–08:20.59 30 minutes and that and then that last
08:20.60–08:23.31 20, but the pace increases. Now, the
08:23.32–08:25.23 athlete is doing that, going back to
08:25.24–08:27.03 their 40-minute run. Now, they build up
08:27.04–08:29.23 to the 50-minute run. I would argue by
08:29.24–08:31.47 the time they're at 50 to 55 minutes in
08:31.48–08:33.63 my system, they're running a really
08:33.64–08:35.79 high-level aerobic workout. And if
08:35.80–08:38.11 you're listening to this saying, "Hey,
08:38.12–08:40.11 you 40 minutes is not long." We've
08:40.12–08:42.19 already thrown that idea out the window.
08:42.20–08:43.99 It's the longest run. So, for this
08:44.00–08:45.67 athlete, it's appropriate. And you're
08:45.68–08:47.11 saying Jay saying, "I might only
08:47.12–08:50.67 progress them from 40 to 42, 42 to 45,
08:50.68–08:54.39 45 to 48, 48 to 50." So, if my math's
08:54.40–08:56.39 right, we got We went from 40 to 50, but
08:56.40–08:58.59 it took us 6 weeks. And what I do in the
08:58.60–09:00.47 training is I usually keep them
09:00.48–09:02.27 sometimes at one of those numbers in
09:02.28–09:04.91 week four to five. So, we might stay at
09:04.92–09:07.15 48 two weeks in a row. So, maybe it
09:07.16–09:09.15 takes us even longer. But if you're
09:09.16–09:12.35 doing this right, the longest run of the
09:12.36–09:13.59 week,
09:13.60–09:15.11 now and I think we can call it a long
09:15.12–09:17.47 run for some kids if it's 50 minutes,
09:17.48–09:19.99 is really up tempo, right? And they're
09:20.00–09:22.55 getting that wonderful aerobic stimulus.
09:22.56–09:23.79 And then another thing we do, we'll talk
09:23.80–09:25.75 about this in another podcast, video,
09:25.76–09:27.27 whatever you want to call this thing,
09:27.28–09:29.31 then we'll quote extend the aerobic
09:29.32–09:30.71 stimulus. We're going to go straight
09:30.72–09:32.39 into our post-run work. We've got to
09:32.40–09:34.35 strengthen the chassis. What did we just
09:34.36–09:37.11 say? We said these kids are weak,
09:37.12–09:38.67 right? Their body's weak. So, we got to
09:38.68–09:40.27 get We've got to do the post-run work.
09:40.28–09:41.31 You already know that. If you're
09:41.32–09:43.63 watching it If you're 12 minutes into
09:43.64–09:45.15 this, you know you need to do post-run
09:45.16–09:46.39 work. You might not know what you need
09:46.40–09:48.79 to do. We'll talk about that later. But,
09:48.80–09:50.47 there's a way you can go straight into
09:50.48–09:51.51 it.
09:51.52–09:53.47 Outside my window here, it's 90° in
09:53.48–09:54.79 Denver. It's going to be even hotter
09:54.80–09:56.31 today.
09:56.32–09:58.55 It When it's warm outside, they've done
09:58.56–10:00.07 this 50-minute run. Heart rate is
10:00.08–10:02.35 elevated. They can get a quick drink of
10:02.36–10:04.07 water, go straight into the post-run
10:04.08–10:05.79 work. Maybe you've seen the Sam videos.
10:05.80–10:07.27 We do some things that are harder than
10:07.28–10:09.55 Sam, but it will Core-X. If you've seen
10:09.56–10:11.51 Core-X, that's what we're doing. Heart
10:11.52–10:13.51 rate is now elevated, and we call that
10:13.52–10:15.59 extending the aerobic stimulus. Because
10:15.60–10:17.55 we had the aerobic stimulus at the end
10:17.56–10:19.59 of the run, we barely took a break to
10:19.60–10:21.43 get that swig of water. Now, we've gone
10:21.44–10:23.55 straight into post-run work. If we had a
10:23.56–10:25.75 heart rate monitor on them, a chest
10:25.76–10:28.63 strap, which we don't need, but if we
10:28.64–10:30.55 had that, we would say see heart rate
10:30.56–10:33.15 staying high the entire time. Okay, that
10:33.16–10:34.43 was a lot. Tried to give you a lot of
10:34.44–10:36.07 value here. Sorry, I clapped in front of
10:36.08–10:38.15 the mic. That might have been bad. So, I
10:38.16–10:39.67 don't know what this is. Oh, and I
10:39.68–10:41.11 haven't introduced myself. My name is
10:41.12–10:43.67 Jay Johnson, and I help high school
10:43.68–10:45.75 coaches with training. We're starting
10:45.76–10:47.31 something new here called Next Mile
10:47.32–10:48.87 Recruiting. It's going to be awesome. It
10:48.88–10:50.91 is not a recruiting service. One of the
10:50.92–10:53.23 things, if you read the webpage, I
10:53.24–10:55.67 highlight that recruiting services and I
10:55.68–10:58.27 just have to say this, they are scams.
10:58.28–11:00.63 And to think that you can hire somebody
11:00.64–11:03.79 to get a student athlete a scholarship
11:03.80–11:05.51 or to get them on a team where they
11:05.52–11:07.15 haven't run fast enough to be on that
11:07.16–11:09.55 team, is just absolute garbage. If you
11:09.56–11:11.23 coach for a while, you know that.
11:11.24–11:12.59 Unfortunately, parents don't know that.
11:12.60–11:14.83 So, this is for parents who need to
11:14.84–11:16.15 understand the recruiting process.
11:16.16–11:17.67 Often, I'll talk about these things.
11:17.68–11:18.91 I'll talk about my cross country
11:18.92–11:21.19 training systems. I'll talk about Next
11:21.20–11:22.91 Mile Recruiting. But, what I wanted to
11:22.92–11:25.99 do with this first video is to be clear
11:26.00–11:28.79 that I don't have a cadence about around
11:28.80–11:30.59 how I'm going to do these. I'm doing one
11:30.60–11:33.47 today because I was getting a coffee and
11:33.48–11:35.23 I thought man, here we are mid-June
11:35.24–11:36.83 people are screwing up how they think of
11:36.84–11:38.47 the long run. They think that the term
11:38.48–11:40.99 long should always apply to the run and
11:41.00–11:43.83 I'm saying for that younger kid, 20, 25,
11:43.84–11:45.99 30 minutes is long. That's plenty long.
11:46.00–11:47.79 For the 40-minute kid, let's progress
11:47.80–11:49.63 them easily. They might only get to 60
11:49.64–11:51.31 minutes but may and they might even not
11:51.32–11:52.95 even get to 60. They might only get to
11:52.96–11:55.51 55 but they're going to be hustling.
11:55.52–11:57.67 They're going to be have a high level
11:57.68–12:00.03 aerobic workout once they get to that 50
12:00.04–12:01.03 range.
12:01.04–12:03.35 I'm going to try and do this so you can
12:03.36–12:05.59 absorb this and learn from this in any
12:05.60–12:08.11 platform. So both visual and audio, you
12:08.12–12:09.67 can listen to this as a podcast, you can
12:09.68–12:11.95 watch the video. Right now, I'm working
12:11.96–12:14.07 on next mile. I'm helping coaches who
12:14.08–12:15.31 bought the cross country training
12:15.32–12:17.39 system. So actually the easiest thing
12:17.40–12:19.19 for me is just to upload the video to
12:19.20–12:22.35 YouTube. So if you're basically I don't
12:22.36–12:23.99 know how quickly I can do the audio. I
12:24.00–12:25.87 need some help with that. But yeah,
12:25.88–12:27.71 we're going to do this. It's just going
12:27.72–12:29.51 to be it
12:29.52–12:31.51 I'll always try and keep it concise.
12:31.52–12:34.23 I'll always try and keep it off on topic
12:34.24–12:36.11 and it won't be highly edited. So if you
12:36.12–12:37.71 don't like this, if this isn't your cup
12:37.72–12:39.79 of tea, that's fine. Thanks for tuning
12:39.80–12:42.47 in and then obviously people say
12:42.48–12:44.63 subscribe. That's great because you're
12:44.64–12:46.71 I'm going to pop up in your feed. I'm
12:46.72–12:48.43 absolutely going to interact with
12:48.44–12:51.27 comments if they're an honest question
12:51.28–12:53.43 where somebody's truly looking for help.
12:53.44–12:55.43 Statements, often times people make
12:55.44–12:57.63 statements. I'm not going to engage with
12:57.64–12:59.31 statements. The algorithm would like it
12:59.32–13:00.83 if I engage with statements, right?
13:00.84–13:03.31 We're all getting baited into to
13:03.32–13:05.27 interacting with people online. I don't
13:05.28–13:06.83 do that. That's a waste of my time. But
13:06.84–13:08.59 if you have an honest question saying
13:08.60–13:11.39 Jay, why don't you do a long run where
13:11.40–13:13.79 it's 20% of weekly volume, I'll
13:13.80–13:15.19 absolutely answer that question. Why
13:15.20–13:17.31 don't we hold off on answering that
13:17.32–13:19.63 until somebody asks it in the comments.
13:19.64–13:22.35 Okay, thanks for tuning in. 16 minutes.
13:22.36–13:24.71 A time I could not run for 5K right now
13:24.72–13:27.55 which which somewhat embarrassing and
13:27.56–13:29.87 there is now it's a time where low 16
13:29.88–13:32.03 minutes is a time where probably
13:32.04–13:34.79 hundreds if not a thousand female
13:34.80–13:36.39 runners can run that on the track for
13:36.40–13:40.24 5K. Okay. Bye-bye.
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